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The Upcoming New OGL 1.1 vs. OGL 1.0a and Cepheus

• Thread starter Nathan Brazil
• Start date Jan 5, 2023

Nathan Brazil

• Jan 13, 2023

Feedback they will appreciate from any publisher, but for Cepheus itself that would have to be Mongoose Matt or possibly Marc Miller since Cepheus is a license use of of a product which is itself a a licensed product. Like a Russian Doll. LOL  

Administrator

infojunky said: Not enough information. I suspect it framed in terms of further use of WOTC IP. Click to expand...

Tobias said: Quite. And? Replace "authorised" with "published" in both OGLs and you'll see how absurd the idea is. 1.0a is authorised because WotC did in fact authorise it. They cannot undo the reality of this act. Click to expand...

Spinward Flow

Independence Games said: Well, Matt is absolutely right. As it stands currently, all of this is speculation. The leak may or may not be real. The leak may be a trial balloon by WoTC. WoTC may yet see how poorly this is being received. Lots of possibilities. When/if WoTC makes their move, then we'll have something solid to work around. At that stage, we'll see what needs to be done. Click to expand...

aramis said: new edition with just enough changes to force a new round of corebook purchases, etc. Click to expand...

This sounds like a lot of foaming at the mouth over a high level game of rules lawyering. If you really want to make ones displeasure known to WotC, cancel your D&D One account, don't buy their products and do not go see the movie (no matter how good it may look). Individually we don't have much clout, collectively we are an army of Kender with fists full of cash. Hit them in the coin pouch. The only lingo they understand is the jingle of gold. As far as the businesses affected by all this, support them. Buy their stuff...and enjoy them. The gaming industry will band together and deal with the blight that threatens them. Feed the ORC, starve the dragon!  

Spinward Flow said: Yeah ... good luck with that one ... Click to expand...

Condottiere

• Jan 14, 2023

There's stuff like intangibles, such as goodwill. Monetizing the intellectual property would be like making films and video games, where I believe the potential profits are greater, as well as exposure. I think that for fan fiction, if you want to use the material based on your intellectual property from independent sources, offer them a profit sharing scheme from official publications, rather than a cut from gross income.  

aramis said: WotC's press release as quoth by Gizmodo confirms it was a draft for comment to a number of publishing partners... even used the phrase "rolled a 1" in describing the reactions. Click to expand...

daryen said: No. It was not a draft. It was given to companies with a contract that they had to sign within a week. You do not send a "draft" with a contract to sign. The idea that 1.1 was a draft is known as, to use a technical term, a lie. This has been reinforced by multiple sources, including Kickstarter who said they had reduced to royalties from 25% to 20%. Quite simply, WOTC attempted a "shock and awe" assault to bully everyone into accepting the 1.1 terms. After it blew up in their face, they are attempting revisionism to dig out. It wasn't a draft. Click to expand...

aramis said: You're the first I've heard claim it anything other than a draft. I've seen a dozen different comentators (including 5 lawyers) call it a draft, and Wizards call it a draft... Click to expand...

Didn't the Kickstarter folks confirm the leaked version as the one they were approached with? As well as Kobold Press and MCDM saying they were approached, and the license they saw definitely was not for them. When they went public with statements that they were not going to agree (and in fact both orgs said they'd start their own game systems) they did -not- say the version they were approached with was any different than the one (leaked) version the public knew about... that seems likely it would have been mentioned by those parties (or others, also approached), if it was different.  

• Jan 15, 2023

daryen said: No. It was not a draft. It was given to companies with a contract that they had to sign within a week. You do not send a "draft" with a contract to sign. Click to expand...

aramis said: You're the first I've heard claim it anything other than a draft. Click to expand...

Spenser TR said: Didn't the Kickstarter folks confirm the leaked version as the one they were approached with? Click to expand...

Well, from literally every YouTube commenter I have seen (which is surprisingly several at this point), the conclusion is that it was either the real deal, or close enough that any differences were only there to trap leakers. Add in Kickstarter's comments and the insider's comments (that has itself been validated by multiple commenters), I think we can be pretty safe on the conclusion. Plus, it would be one thing if that was the only problematic part of their response, but it isn't. I'd expand but won't because there are at least a half-dozen detailed takedowns of the statement, and I'd just be repeating them. Fundamentally, that statement is an excellent example of textbook gaslighting.  

daryen said: Plus, it would be one thing if that was the only problematic part of their response, but it isn't. I'd expand but won't because there are at least a half-dozen detailed takedowns of the statement, and I'd just be repeating them. Fundamentally, that statement is an excellent example of textbook gaslighting. Click to expand...

But, again, I want to circle back to my first post. The one inarguable point reinforced by this statement is that OGL 1.0a is dead. Whether it lingers for six months (which only applies by accepting the new one), or someone actually goes to court to "save" it, it's dead. We need to accept that now. To keep Cepheus alive and growing, it is absolutely required for Mongoose to rerelease the Traveller SRD with a new license. I understand that it takes time to pick or make such a license. But there is nothing preventing Mongoose from making a statement and commitment of intent that they are working on it now. Cepheus really needs this.  

daryen said: To keep Cepheus alive and growing, it is absolutely required for Mongoose to rerelease the Traveller SRD with a new license. I understand that it takes time to pick or make such a license. But there is nothing preventing Mongoose from making a statement and commitment of intent that they are working on it now. Cepheus really needs this. Click to expand...

It could be the new ORC license. It could be one of the Creative Commons licenses. It could be something of their own creation. I don't actually care. What matters is that it is no longer the OGL and it has to come from Mongoose in an updated SRD.  

Condottiere said: There's stuff like intangibles, such as goodwill. Monetizing the intellectual property would be like making films and video games, where I believe the potential profits are greater, as well as exposure. I think that for fan fiction, if you want to use the material based on your intellectual property from independent sources, offer them a profit sharing scheme from official publications, rather than a cut from gross income. Click to expand...

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• Nov 10, 2003
• MegaTraveller

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Back to Traveller

I find myself stepping back to Traveller after the recent OGL debacle shook my world. I’d been interested in writing game and story material for a long while, and had been doing so for various games under OGL but the whole affair has left a kind of taste in my mouth. I am certainly anti-WotC, and a few words shared with MWM on this topic brought me back to Traveller in a big way; lots of reading and immersing.

So, I’ll be detailing some things here again, and happy for it. I’ll also link to some of my other work that’s been put out since then.

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Traveller Open Content - New Programme on the Way

• Thread starter Morrus
• Start date Jan 18, 2023
• Jan 18, 2023
• Replies: 50

Bravesteel25

Baronet of gaming.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, the folks at Mongoose Publishing are top class because not only do they believe in ethical causes like open gaming, but they back it up with actions. Well done, Matt and team!  

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)

It is amazing the amount of long term damage WOTC has done to their RPG brand in such a short period of time. They had all the goodwill in the world going for them, probably the most they've had since the 1980s, and they set it all on fire in a matter of two weeks by not just initial incompetence but inability to get ahead of a PR disaster as it was happening. Which shows in this accouchement (Edit: meant announcement?) - Mongoose was a long time business ally publishing under their license, which not just benefitted them but also benefitted D&D. Because learning D&D meant you learned the basic mechanics of so many other RPGs like some of Mongoose's. And now that feedback loop is broken...for no good reason.  

Well, that was fun

Mistwell said: Which shows in this accouchement - Mongoose was a long time business ally publishing under their license, which not just benefitted them but also benefitted D&D. Because learning D&D meant you learned the basic mechanics of so many other RPGs like some of Mongoose's. And now that feedback loop is broken...for no good reason. Click to expand...

Mistwell said: Which shows in this accouchement [. . .] Click to expand...

Dungeonosophy

Morrus said: Mongoose Publishing has announced that the Traveller sci-fi RPG will be moving away from the Open Gaming License (OGL), and adopting Paizo's upcoming new Open RPG Creator License (ORC). View attachment 272966 ​ In light of recent events, Mongoose Publishing is going to be introducing a brand new Traveller Open Content programme, allowing gamers and publishers to build their own projects using the most recent edition of Traveller rules. We will be working with existing Traveller OGL publishers to build a new SRD based upon the Traveller Core Rulebook Update 2022, using their feedback to ensure best utility, and a logo licence will be made available to clearly mark compatible products. At this time, we are looking to the ORC licence to maintain openness, now and in the future. The current TAS programme on Drivethru, which allows the publishing of material set in the official Charted Space universe, will continue to run separately, but alongside, Traveller Open Content. More news as it develops! Click to expand...

Morrus said: Mongoose wasn't using WotC's game system in any way AFAIK, just using the OGL as a tool to enable content sharing. Click to expand...

He'll flip ya...Flip ya for real...

So good to hear! I wish I lived in the U.K. id consider a career change for Mongoose!  

Nice! I hope this will increase attention for Traveller a bit (the system is a bit crunchy for my taste, but Mongoose is putting out solid stuff for it, and there's a number of nice publications based on Cepheus, which might be interested in building again directly on Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition now).  

B/X Known World

Fantastic news.  

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Traveller Open Content - New Programme on the Way!

• Thread starter MongooseMatt
• Start date Jan 18, 2023

• MongooseMatt

Administrator

• Jan 18, 2023

This is terrific news. By ORC are you referring to Open RPG Creative license such as the one Paizo Publishing has? How would this effect those publishers that create different versions of the Cepheus Engine? Would they be able to create a CE edition based upon the 2022 update SRD and then retail it on a storefront like drivethru? Or is it just for other types of content?  

Are you considering relicensing the existing SRD so that the Cepheus Engine could (potentially) be relicensed as well? Or is this just an SRD update and the intention is that CE products under the OGL 1.0a will be left to sway in the wind? E: I ask because I'm perfectly happy with what we have now (sans this licensing debacle), the current SRD and Cepheus Engine, and am not exactly interested in updated rules.  

How will the Traveller Open Content and TAS programmes differ?  

• Jan 19, 2023

Great news!  

alex_greene

So many questions ... I'll ask one. If it's set in the OTU / Charted Space / etc, with Droyne, Zhodani, Vilani and all our friends ... that's TAS, and anything else such as your own homebrew stuff (e.g. a whole different setting) ... that'd be the TOC license. Would that be the way you feel like you're heading?  

taosecurity

• Jan 20, 2023

regex said: Are you considering relicensing the existing SRD so that the Cepheus Engine could (potentially) be relicensed as well? Or is this just an SRD update and the intention is that CE products under the OGL 1.0a will be left to sway in the wind? E: I ask because I'm perfectly happy with what we have now (sans this licensing debacle), the current SRD and Cepheus Engine, and am not exactly interested in updated rules. Click to expand...

MatthiasDeWit

I also want to support relicensing the currect SRD so the Cepheus Engine can continue.  

alex_greene said: So many questions ... I'll ask one. If it's set in the OTU / Charted Space / etc, with Droyne, Zhodani, Vilani and all our friends ... that's TAS, and anything else such as your own homebrew stuff (e.g. a whole different setting) ... that'd be the TOC license. Would that be the way you feel like you're heading? Click to expand...

Banded Mongoose

This is great news. With my OSR projects on hold Traveller is something I’d like to support instead.  

Will this have any impact on Virtual Table Top content - i.e. the Mongoose Traveller 1 and Mongoose Traveller 2 rulesets for Fantasy Grounds? Currently the ruleset is vaulted making it impossible for a Referee to write their own Extension to provide custom features to players. Some rulesets available for FG (Savage Worlds, FATE Core, Starfinder, Pathfinder, all D&D versions, to name a few) make part of the ruleset available by providing what's called a PAK file in the global \ruleset folder. It would be a big boon to the FG VTT Traveller community, if we had a PAK file to code our own custom extensions. And it would allow someone to code an extension to properly support the Cepheus Engine. And on another VTT note, what about selling Custom Modules on the Fantasy Grounds Forge? A FG custom module could be equivalent to TAS, where the Referee is adding additional content to the existing Traveller Universe; currently a handful of these (mostly spacecraft deck plans) are free on the Forge. A custom module can also be a homebrew where the Referee is just using the ruleset to support a custom setting. Would the TOC allow homebrew setting modules to be distributed via the Forge and even charge $ for them ?  

• Jan 23, 2023

I sure hope Mongoose decides to do the right thing and support the hobby here. There are several Traveller books I've been looking forward to getting when I have a little more disposable income in the near future, but ... how Mongoose decides to treat the community is going to play a big part in my decision on how much money I want to give them. I'm not a mover or a shaker in the world, but I can and do vote with my wallet. And you know, I already have a physical copy of the Mongoose 2e2022 Traveller core book. I like what I'm seeing here and I want more of it.  

Zeropoint said: I sure hope Mongoose decides to do the right thing and support the hobby here. Click to expand...

Condottiere

Emperor mongoose.

I could be totally off with my impression, but it seems that Mongoose is going the socialist route with creating a workers' paradise, while Hasbro is choking on hyper capitalism. As I understand it, Dungeons and Dragons as a whole brings in about one hundred fifty megabux of revenue, and they need to make it breakthrough the gigabux barrier, per annum.  

• Jan 27, 2023

No. The socialist route would mean that you get paid for someone else's efforts. Hasbro is going the monopolistic totalitarian oligarch route. Davos style.  

Socialism means it works like insurance. Everyone pays in and it pays out as needed. It's not about getting paid for someone else's work. Mongoose is trending towards employee ownership, which is also not socialism, but it's definitely quite different from modern shareholder first capitalism.  

OGL 1.0a & Creative Commons

It's a ceasefire. At some point management realized it could escalate to nukes.  

Cosmic Mongoose

Thank God this mess is over. But the damage has been done already. The ORC license is still coming. And I expect that at least some people have at least tried a different system and don't plan to come back now. I don't know if we should praise WoTC for listening to their fans, or vilify them for creating this mess in the first place.  

I wonder how/if this changes plans to issue a new license and community guidelines around the Traveller 2e content? Regardless of all the other things going on, I'm looking forward to hearing more about this.  

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The Cepheus Engine Core Rules describe an open 2D6-based Classic-era science fiction gaming system. Inspired by the original three books of the oldest 2D6-based SFRPG, the Cepheus Engine system incorporates elements of Open Game Content from previous releases of that game of intergalactic drifters and wanderers. This basic system lets you create your own science fiction universes or play in the ones you're already familiar with. Explore interstellar space, make a ton of Credits on speculative trade, find yourself halfway across the sector after a serious misjump, or blow people up with your mind, if you can find training. You can even die during character creation.

This standalone Core Rules set, with the complete text of the Cepheus Engine System Reference Document, provides all the rules you need to play the game, and it's all Open Game Content. Cepheus Engine originator Jason "Flynn" Kemp has kindly let Moon Toad produce this edition, which introduces minor changes and fixes, blank character and reference sheets, and a complete index.

"Cepheus Engine" is a trademark of Jason "Flynn" Kemp.

Spacecraft Design Guide (154pp, retail price $16): Expanding on the basic starship design rules from the Cepheus Engine System Reference Document, the Spacecraft Design Guide provides the tools for a naval architect to design small craft, traders, light naval vessels, and massive capital ships. Install the latest technology to jump interstellar distances, use inertialess drives that bend gravity, move by falling towards microscopic black holes, or ride fire on a fusion plasma drive. Design low-tech missiles, high-energy lasers, and capital ship-killing torpedoes. Advanced rules allow for naval capital ship combat, where massed barrages, rather than the fire from a single turret hit, decide the victor.

Vehicle Design Guide (177pp, retail $22): The Vehicle Design Guide lets you design pretty much any vehicle type for any role in your Cepheus Engine campaign, from massive seagoing battleships to fast grav vehicles perfect for exploratory jaunts around a new world. The Vehicle Design Guide gives you multiple chassis choices, weapon and armor types, and all manner of internal and external options for any design. It provides a new streamlined vehicle combat system and more than 50 complete vehicles, along with fillable .PDF forms that cover all the chassis in the book.

Bounty hunters operate outside the legal constraints that govern law enforcement officers and other agents of a polity. Across many and varied worlds and government types, bounty hunters execute missions impossible for official agents due to diplomatic, legal, and financial challenges. The Cepheus Engine Bounty Hunter Handbook describes types of bounty hunters, the economics of the trade, typical ships and equipment, example warrants, a maglev train, and a Class B starport.

This adventure book details a frontier Scout Base, the smallest type maintained by the Scout Service, located on a backwater world in the Rim Edge subsector. The book provides plans and detailed background for the scout base, its crew, the world, the planetary system, and the subsector. Use Scout Base 947 as part of an ongoing campaign, or for the three different one-shot adventures provided. Includes pregenerated characters and deck plans for a variant Scout-Courier ship.

These thorough and profusely illustrated guides, ranging from 21 to 101 pages each, present detailed descriptions, deck plans, and Cepheus Engine game stats for one class of spacecraft. Each guide includes a crew manifest and up to eight pregenerated character cards. Each has an accompanying archive of color graphics suitable for virtual tabletops.

In this list, each link goes to the guide's DriveThruRPG product page that describes content highlights.

• Atticus Freelancer (24pp, retail price $4)
• Catino Fast Trader (32pp, retail $8)
• Celeres Escort (51pp, retail $7.50)
• Kambala Freighter (38pp, retail $6)
• Mainstay Freighter (101pp, retail $13.50)
• Quixote Scout (24pp, retail $2)
• RAX -Type Merchant (21pp, retail $4)
• Rivington Medium Transport (78pp, retail $11)
• Roanoke Merchant with Raccoon Landing Craft (48pp, retail $8)
• Starguard System Defense Boat (36pp, retail $8)

Record every detail of your Mongoose Traveller or Cepheus Engine starship designs, and make running a ship easier for players and Referee alike. The blank ship record is presented in two-page and four-page versions. There are separate sheets for a crew roster, small craft, and mounted weapons. Fully worked sample sheets give specifications for an Elson -class Explorer Vessel, Pukhara Stealth Variant, RAX -Type Protected Merchant, and Typhonus Destroyer.

This 90-page Referee guide for the Cepheus Engine RPG and classic 2d6 SFRPGs details the Otdalennyy Subsector and its four inhabited systems: Backwash, Sandrift, Nasekomoye, and Kyrgyz. Otdalennyy is under the control of the eccentric but well connected Grand Duke Bashar Al Rutharwi IX of the Landed Nobility. He has discouraged complete mapping of his domain, and the Grand Duke himself appears content to leave the management of the subsector to his household staff, operating from the capital, while he enjoys the comfort of his own private fiefdom on one of the lesser systems in the subsector.

The Class E Starport of the title is a modest two-story utility structure, with associated vehicles and facilities, that you can place on any world in the subsector or elsewhere in your campaign. The guide also includes statistics, crew rosters, and deck plans for seven starships: the Haunebu Scout, Hugin Far Trader, Gepard Express Courier, Akula Patrol Corvette, a hexapuma safari ship, a prospector mothership, and an ore prospector drone.

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• Dungeons & Dragons / Fantasy D20 Spotlight

D&D SRD 5.2 coming in early 2025

• Thread starter neutrondecay
• Start date May 6, 2024

Spam Sweeper

• Friday at 5:54 AM

glass said: Had 4e not been branded as "D&D" it would have probably received less hatred and misinformation, but only because a lot fewer people would care or even know about it. Commensurately therefore, it would have made a lot less money. Don't forget, 4e my have failed to make enough to achieve Hasbro Core Brand status, but by that standard no RPG that existed or had ever existed at the time was a success (and only one since). By any normal standard, it was stupendously successful for an RPG. Anyway, assuming it does happen as announced, releasing the remaining extant SRDs under CC-BY seems like a good thing. In the IMO unlike event that they also release a 4e SRD, I really hope they also release under the OGL as well! Similarly, I hope they release the 5.2 SRD under the OGL as well. (Apart from the fact that I think it would be useful to people who still need to use the OGL: If the don't, I couldn't help but worry that it was a precursor to another attempt to go after the OGL, after separating off many of the people who fought back last time - divide and conquer). Click to expand...

Agrippina Siderea

Well-known member.

• Friday at 6:14 AM

I don't think there'd be any benefit to anyone, WotC or third-party creators, to releasing new SRDs as both OGL and CC. CC-BY is in every way a more permissive license than OGL; you just need to attribute your sources (which you have to do with OGL anyway). There's literally nothing the OGL lets you do that CC-BY doesn't. I can't think of any situation where a CC'd SRD also being under OGL would be useful.  

(He/him or they/them)

• Friday at 9:21 AM

Zeea said: They've already said they're abandoning the OGL because it's a weaker, outdated license. That's inconvenient when it comes to compatibility but it's almost certainly not because they're going to bother to go after it again later, since there's absolutely no reason to do it. Click to expand...

Agrippina Siderea said: There's literally nothing the OGL lets you do that CC-BY doesn't. I can't think of any situation where a CC'd SRD also being under OGL would be useful. Click to expand...

lupus_everto

Active member.

• Friday at 10:05 AM

At this point I'm unconvinced spite is actually a motive at wotc, since basically everyone who would have that animus against paizo has been gone for years.  

CarpeGuitarrem

Blogger and gamer.

• Friday at 10:15 AM

lupus_everto said: At this point I'm unconvinced spite is actually a motive at wotc, since basically everyone who would have that animus against paizo has been gone for years. Click to expand...

Infant Great One

• Friday at 10:48 AM

Retroactively destroying the OGL definitely feels like it'd be more trouble than it's worth. They already tried that, and failed so hard they had to go Creative Commons to avoid the backlash. It will stick around, and the products based on it will join the long tail if they're not already there. They're just not going to release new stuff under it.  

Perpetually Perpetrating Plots & Ploys

• Friday at 1:25 PM
• Friday at 2:24 PM

glass said: Well, there's at least one thing: Release products under the OGL without you and your downstream licensees having to worry about complying with the terms of two separate licences. Click to expand...

Voidmoji said: I can think of one: combine it with the vast amount of OGL material already available. Click to expand...

• Friday at 3:24 PM

Zeea said: My worries would be similar to Gurbintroll. That they go back and cut out all the 3e stuff that's not in the 5.1e SRD. That would be really stupid, but they could do it. And, yeah, I'd love a real 4e SRD but I don't think they'd do it. Nobody was expecting them to release one and they'd have to do way more work. If they did release one, it'd be a very nice gift and might get them some much-needed good will, though. (Hint hint, if any top-level Wizards folks are reading this.) Click to expand...

• Friday at 3:42 PM

barrataria said: If the "older editions" rules releases happen, I'd think that's what they'll look like, possibly drafted from the 5.1 (or .2 depending on timing) versions rather than the old Moldvay/Cook/EGG texts themselves. So, the basic mechanic with to hit/saving throw tables (?), a token class, elf/dwarf/halfling for the 1E/2E version, an equipment list, I dunno what else? The Traveller SRD only included one career, for example., it wouldn't be a novelty. Click to expand...

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