carnival cruise ship poop

DISASTER TIMELINE: How Carnival Went From 'Fun Ship' To 'Poop Cruise'

Over its 41 years, Carnival Cruise Line has had a checkered past. In its heyday, Carnival was the cruise brand known for innovation, but more recently it has become known as the brand with PR disasters to deal with.

Click here for the disaster timeline >

Last week, Carnival's 'Triumph' ship was towed into Mobile, Alabama after almost a week stuck at sea due to an engine fire.

The testimonies from the passengers are truly disgusting : Hallways were flooded with human waste, there was no A/C or running water, and passengers were left to survive on limited food and water. The Triumph was given the nickname "poop cruise" because passengers were forced to use the bathroom in bags.

But do these PR crises have a lasting effect? According to Jaunted , trips aboard 'Triumph' can already be booked for as early as April of this year. That's only two months after passengers said that the floors were "flooded with sewer water."

This type of disaster is not new for Carnival. It experienced very similar situations in 1998, 1999, and 2010. And let's not forget about the Costa Concordia disaster in Italy last year in which the ship capsized, killing 32 passengers . (Carnival owns Costa Concordia).

It has also had to deal with circumstances of passengers jumping overboard to their deaths. 

But with every PR disaster in Carnival's history, it has also experienced record-breaking good moments.

Carnival was the original brand to pioneer the concept of shorter, less expensive cruises. It built the first ship to weigh more than 100,000 tons, as well as the world's first non-smoking ship.

The cruise company's on-board service has won numerous awards , including three Cruise Critic Editor's Picks —best new ship, best bar, and best value in 2012.

Carnival Cruise Lines was founded by Ted Arison in 1972.

Ted Arison, the son of a multi-millionaire shipping magnate, was born in Israel in 1924. He immigrated to the U.S. in the early 50s and co-founded Norwegian Cruise Lines in 1966.

He then went on to found his own cruise company, Carnival Cruise Lines, six years later.

Carnival was originally a subsidiary of American International Travel Service (AITS), but in 1974, Arison bought Carnival for $1 , along with $5 million in assumed AITS debt.

By the late 1980s, Arison was reportedly one of the world's richest men , with a personal fortune estimated to be between $6 and $10 billion.

His family still  owns the Miami Heat . He was the man responsible for bringing the team to South Florida.

Carnival's first-ever voyage got off to a bad a start.

According to Carnival's website , in 1972 " the company’s first cruise ship, the TSS Mardi Gras, runs aground on a sandbar during its inaugural voyage."

But by the early 80's, things started improving.

In 1984, Carnival became the first cruise line to advertise on network television. Kathie Lee Gifford, then Kathie Lee Johnson, was the company's first spokesperson.

The 1980s was a great time for Carnival.

In 1982, the 'Tropicale' ship debuted, representing the first new ship the industry had seen in years.

Two years later, Carnival launched the first network-wide advertising campaign in the industry.

This video  is one of the original commercials Carnival ran. It features Kathie Lee Johnson, aka Kathie Lee Gifford.

In the late 80s, Carnival was carrying more passengers than any other cruise line, making it "The World's Most Popular Cruise Line." The brand still uses this phrase as its tagline.

In 1987, Carnival completed an initial public offering of 20 percent of its common stock.

The cruise line was able to generate around $400 million from its IPO . 

This money would help it buy new ships, as well as acquire other brands.

In 1989, it made its first acquisition — the Holland America Line.

In the 90s, Carnival began launching newer, bigger ships, including the world's first non-smoking vessel.

In 1997, Carnival launched 'Destiny,' the first cruise ship in the world to weigh more than 100,000 tons. 

One year later, Carnival launched 'Paradise,' the first non-smoking cruise ship in the world.

But with these breakthroughs also came the company's first major PR nightmares. 

In 1998, there was a fire onboard the Carnival 'Ecstasy.'

In July 1998, soon after 'Ecstasy' departed from Miami, a fire started in the main laundry room .

As the ship was attempting to re-dock at the Miami port, it lost propulsion power and began drifting off course. Sound familiar?

It took six tugboats to fight the fire and pull the ship to shore. Eight passengers and 14 crew members were injured. It cost $17 million to repair the ship .

Then there was another fire on another ship in 1999.

A little over a year later, the Tropicale's engine room caught fire, leaving the ship in the path of Tropical Storm Harvey.

The ship's captain, Vito Riccio, told the St. Petersburg Times that he didn't relay information about the fire to the passengers for fear that they would then panic and jump overboard.

In 2005, the company was both praised and criticized for its Katrina-related efforts.

While the early 2000s were relatively uneventful for the brand, things changed after Hurricane Katrina when the U.S. government signed a six-month contract with Carnival . Under the agreement, Carnival received $236 million in exchange for three ships to be used as temporary housing for Katrina victims. 

The ships were docked along the Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas coastlines.

Despite Carnival's honorable intentions, the contract was highly criticized because Carnival was earning more money than it normally would have had the ships been used as vacation spots. Many of the ships were also mostly empty.

Between 2006 and 2007, two separate passenger deaths caused another PR dilemma for the brand.

In May 2006, a Philadelphia man jumped off his balcony on Carnival's 'Legend' after an argument with his wife. The tragedy happened off the coast of Bermuda. 

A little over a year later, an 18-year-old from Houston also jumped to his death from a Carnival ship. According to the Houston Chronicle , his jump may have been premeditated.

The economic downfall of 2008 did not bode well for Carnival or the rest of the cruise ship industry.

In April 2008, Micky Arison, the chairman of Carnival Corp. & plc, announced that the brand would not be ordering any new U.S. ships until the American economy improved.

In 2009, Carnival's largest "Fun Ship" was retired.

'Dream,' the largest of the "Fun Ship" line, was retired in 2009. It was also the largest ship ever built by the Italian shipbuilding company Fincantieri.

In November 2010, another Carnival cruise ship had a fire on board.

The generator room on Carnival's 'Splendor' caught fire, causing the ship to lose power.

According to CBS News , 4,500 passengers were trapped at sea for over 24 hours with very little food and no A/C or hot water.  The ship was towed to San Diego.

Once again, sound familiar? 

For the next couple of years, Carnival avoided major PR disasters.

In October 2012, 'Spirit' launched, becoming the company's first ship to sail through Australian waters, as well as the largest ship to cruise to Australia year-round.

'Spirit' is too large to fit under the bridge to Carnival's cruise terminal , so it is docked separately.

The brand also signed an agreement with Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri for both a 99,000-ton ship for its Holland America Line and a 135,000-ton ship for its Carnival Cruise Line. 

According to Breaking Travel News , Giuseppe Bono, chief executive of Fincantieri, said, “These additional orders bring the total number of ships we have built for Carnival Corporation to 61 and confirm Fincantieri’s world leadership in the cruise ship sector even at a time of slowing demand.”

In January 2012, a Costa Concordia ship owned by Carnival struck a rock off the coast of an Italian island.

Thirty passengers aboard the Costa Concordia lost their lives, and as of December 2012, two were still missing.

Because the ship wreckage is in a nationally protected marine park and coral reef, removing the wreckage has proven difficult and costly . 

According to 60 Minutes, the cleanup will cost $400 million.

Hundreds of passengers and up to 1,000 businesses on the Italian island have sued or are in the process of suing Carnival . 

Carnival's most recent PR fiasco may be the last straw for many of Carnival's loyal customers.

After almost a week of being stranded with no running water or air conditioning, passengers who suffered aboard the 'Triumph' ship are already starting to sue Carnival over the conditions they endured.

Making things even worse, one of the buses carrying rescued passengers from Mobile to New Orleans broke down.

Carnival has already offered passengers a refund, cruise credit, and $500, but this disaster may prove too big to be solved with money. 

The engine fire that caused the horrible conditions is still under investigation, and it may take months to find the cause.

Despite Carnival's recent problems, the brand is still used by almost 50 percent of worldwide cruise passengers.

According to Cruise Market Watch, the worldwide cruise industry is an estimated $36.2 billion business.

Current data shows a 4.5 percent increase in revenue from 2012 figures.  

There has also been a 3.3 percent increase in yearly passengers since 2012.

This chart shows the revenues of the worldwide cruise industry. Each color represents a different parent company. Subsidiaries of Carnival  Corp. & plc (CCL) are the red dots. Subsidiaries of CCL's major competitor, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (RCL), are shown in dark blue. All other brands, including MSC Cruises and Norwegian, are shown in light blue.

CCL serves 48.4 percent of total worldwide cruise passengers. RCL serves 23.3 percent, and all other brands combine to serve 28.3 percent of cruisers.

You've seen how Carnival has operated over the years...

Now see the augmented reality campaigns brands are using today  →

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clock This article was published more than  11 years ago

Carnival Triumph disaster: A drama of discomfort

On Friday morning we finally saw them, those wretched refugees of the Carnival Triumph, after five days stranded at sea. They disembarked the floating Port-a-John on which they had been imprisoned, some wearing white cruise line bathrobes to protect themselves against the unexpected chill, kneeling to kiss the ground as they came ashore.

“United States,” a woman in a floppy hat breathed ecstatically to a television reporter. “Ain’t nothing better.”

A cruise represents not only a vacation, but a very specific kind of vacation. One books it when one does not want to have to decide, or plan, or worry, or change money, or get tetanus shots. The people who would take a cruise have considered hiking through Nepal, cycling through Norway, staying at quaint little flophouses in Eastern Europe — it's not like they don't know those travel options exist — and thought, "No." They do not believe that getting your wallet stolen in Mexico City is "a good story."

I have cruised, and I loved it, and so I say fondly: A cruise ship’s passenger log is comprised entirely of the exact demographic that is least prepared for a cruise to go to pot. A cruise is a giant boat full of your mother-in-law. Your mother-in-law does not belong in the wild.

What happened: Midway through a four-day Mexican cruise, the Triumph's engine room caught fire, the ship lost power, and then suddenly it was just drifting, somewhere in the Gulf of Mexico. A four-day trip became an eight-day one. A 102,000-ton boat , the length of three football fields and containing 4,000 passengers, was reduced to Huck Finn's raft. It took three days for some gallant little tugboats to tow it into port in Mobile, Ala. There was nothing for watchers at home to do but imagine the hellscape aboard the doomed vessel.

But now the survivors are back, ready to share what really happened. On the "Today" show, Matt Lauer encouraged two female passengers to tell him everything . But everything, edited. "Not too graphic," he warned them. This was, after all, a morning show. The women appeared briefly flummoxed, trying to figure out how to tell a G-rated version of the story.

“It was, like, post-natural disaster,” Julie Billings said finally. “But stuck on a boat.”

Excuse us, Matt Lauer, but how could the story not be graphic? The filth, the waste, the rapid decline, is precisely what made the saga so horrifying for viewers and readers at home. We hung onto every bleated-out text message of despair, every description of what they were eating, and where they were sleeping, and where their waste went. (In red plastic bags. Marked with hazardous-waste symbols. Left outside state rooms. In ice buckets. We saw pictures.)

It was a drama, but not of danger. It was a drama of discomfort.

The smell. Just think of the smell. Skip this paragraph if you don't want to think of the smell. The unrefrigerated food and the unrefreshed bodies, the uncirculated dankness of the cabins, so filthy that passengers began sleeping on deck chairs instead, lugging their pillows to some high-thread-count open-air slumber party.

“I’m just happy to be alive,” a woman told “Good Morning America.”

Hell is other people. Hell is other people on a boat. What will it take before we accept this? After David Foster Wallace writes about it in an erudite essay ? After a Concordia captain abandons his sinking ship? After a New York Times reporter mentions that his journey on the classy Cunard was delayed for several hours so workers could scrub the ship down after a norovirus outbreak?

It’s over now, all over.

Carnival put the passengers on buses, heading either to New Orleans or to their origin point of Galveston, Tex. The company had promised to cover all travel expenses home. And to give each passenger $500 in compensation.

As well as a credit. A credit for another cruise.

The Carnival Poop Cruise Is Finally Over

The Carnival Triumph pulled into the Port of Mobile at about half past nine, local time, bringing an end to the days-long, feces-filled journey. Sort of.

The Carnival Triumph pulled into the Port of Mobile at about half past nine, local time, bringing an end to the days-long, feces-filled journey. Sort of. Despite being adrift for almost a week with no running water, passengers were told that they would still have to wait on board for hours before they could set foot on dry land.

And even then, it was either a two-hour bus trip to New Orleans or a seven-hour trip to Galveston or Houston. An earlier plan had called for the ship to be towed to Mexico, but Carnival decided heading to Alabama would make travel home easier for the passengers. Easy does not equal comfortable.

And  then who knows how long it'll be until Carnival coughs up the we're-sorry dollars. The company said that it will give $500 to every passenger in addition to a full refund of the price of the cruise and discounts on future cruises which is probably the worst consolation prize these folks could imagine.

"And then," The New York Times explains , "there is the matter of potential litigation by passengers, although the ability of passengers to sue cruise ship operators is sharply limited, lawyers said." Said one passenger of the $500, "We think it's hush money."

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The Carnival Poop Cruise Is Finally Over

The Carnival Triumph pulled into the Port of Mobile at about half past nine, local time, bringing an end to the days-long, feces-filled journey. Sort of. Despite being adrift for almost a week with no running water, passengers were told that they would still have to wait on board for hours before they could set foot on dry land.

RELATED: CNN Is Really, Really, Really Into This 'Poop Cruise' Disaster

And even then, it was either a two-hour bus trip to New Orleans or a seven-hour trip to Galveston or Houston. An earlier plan had called for the ship to be towed to Mexico, but Carnival decided heading to Alabama would make travel home easier for the passengers. Easy does not equal comfortable.

RELATED: CNN's Don Lemon Says He's Gay in New Memoir

And  then who knows how long it'll be until Carnival coughs up the we're-sorry dollars. The company said that it will give $500 to every passenger in addition to a full refund of the price of the cruise and discounts on future cruises which is probably the worst consolation prize these folks could imagine.

RELATED: This Is Fox News's Christmas Card

"And then," The New York Times explains , "there is the matter of potential litigation by passengers, although the ability of passengers to sue cruise ship operators is sharply limited, lawyers said." Said one passenger of the $500, "We think it's hush money."

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DISASTER TIMELINE: How Carnival Went From 'Fun Ship' To 'Poop Cruise'

Carnival cruise lines was founded by ted arison in 1972..

Ted Arison, the son of a multi-millionaire shipping magnate, was born in Israel in 1924. He immigrated to the U.S. in the early 50s and co-founded Norwegian Cruise Lines in 1966.

He then went on to found his own cruise company, Carnival Cruise Lines, six years later.

Carnival was originally a subsidiary of American International Travel Service (AITS), but in 1974, Arison bought Carnival for $1 , along with $5 million in assumed AITS debt.

By the late 1980s, Arison was reportedly one of the world's richest men , with a personal fortune estimated to be between $6 and $10 billion.

His family still  owns the Miami Heat . He was the man responsible for bringing the team to South Florida.

Carnival's first-ever voyage got off to a bad a start.

According to Carnival's website , in 1972 " the company’s first cruise ship, the TSS Mardi Gras, runs aground on a sandbar during its inaugural voyage."

But by the early 80's, things started improving.

According to Carnival's website , in 1972 the company’s first cruise ship, the TSS Mardi Gras, runs aground on a sandbar during its inaugural voyage.

In 1984, Carnival became the first cruise line to advertise on network television. Kathie Lee Gifford, then Kathie Lee Johnson, was the company's first spokesperson.

The 1980s was a great time for Carnival.

In 1982, the 'Tropicale' ship debuted, representing the first new ship the industry had seen in years.

Two years later, Carnival launched the first network-wide advertising campaign in the industry.

This video  is one of the original commercials Carnival ran. It features Kathie Lee Johnson, aka Kathie Lee Gifford.

In the late 80s, Carnival was carrying more passengers than any other cruise line, making it "The World's Most Popular Cruise Line." The brand still uses this phrase as its tagline.

In the late 80s, Carnival was carrying more passengers than any other cruise line, making it The World's Most Popular Cruise Line. The brand still uses this phrase as its tagline.

In 1987, Carnival completed an initial public offering of 20 percent of its common stock.

The cruise line was able to generate around $400 million from its IPO . 

This money would help it buy new ships, as well as acquire other brands.

In 1989, it made its first acquisition — the Holland America Line.

In the 90s, Carnival began launching newer, bigger ships, including the world's first non-smoking vessel.

In 1997, Carnival launched 'Destiny,' the first cruise ship in the world to weigh more than 100,000 tons. 

One year later, Carnival launched 'Paradise,' the first non-smoking cruise ship in the world.

But with these breakthroughs also came the company's first major PR nightmares. 

In 1998, there was a fire onboard the Carnival 'Ecstasy.'

In July 1998, soon after 'Ecstasy' departed from Miami, a fire started in the main laundry room .

As the ship was attempting to re-dock at the Miami port, it lost propulsion power and began drifting off course. Sound familiar?

It took six tugboats to fight the fire and pull the ship to shore. Eight passengers and 14 crew members were injured. It cost $17 million to repair the ship .

Then there was another fire on another ship in 1999.

A little over a year later, the Tropicale's engine room caught fire, leaving the ship in the path of Tropical Storm Harvey.

The ship's captain, Vito Riccio, told the St. Petersburg Times that he didn't relay information about the fire to the passengers for fear that they would then panic and jump overboard.

In 2005, the company was both praised and criticized for its Katrina-related efforts.

While the early 2000s were relatively uneventful for the brand, things changed after Hurricane Katrina when the U.S. government signed a six-month contract with Carnival . Under the agreement, Carnival received $236 million in exchange for three ships to be used as temporary housing for Katrina victims. 

The ships were docked along the Alabama, Louisiana, and Texas coastlines.

Despite Carnival's honorable intentions, the contract was highly criticized because Carnival was earning more money than it normally would have had the ships been used as vacation spots. Many of the ships were also mostly empty.

Between 2006 and 2007, two separate passenger deaths caused another PR dilemma for the brand.

In May 2006, a Philadelphia man jumped off his balcony on Carnival's 'Legend' after an argument with his wife. The tragedy happened off the coast of Bermuda. 

A little over a year later, an 18-year-old from Houston also jumped to his death from a Carnival ship. According to the Houston Chronicle , his jump may have been premeditated.

The economic downfall of 2008 did not bode well for Carnival or the rest of the cruise ship industry.

In April 2008, Micky Arison, the chairman of Carnival Corp. & plc, announced that the brand would not be ordering any new U.S. ships until the American economy improved.

In 2009, Carnival's largest "Fun Ship" was retired.

'Dream,' the largest of the "Fun Ship" line, was retired in 2009. It was also the largest ship ever built by the Italian shipbuilding company Fincantieri.

'Dream,' the largest of the Fun Ship line, was retired in 2009. It was also the largest ship ever built by the Italian shipbuilding company Fincantieri.

In November 2010, another Carnival cruise ship had a fire on board.

The generator room on Carnival's 'Splendor' caught fire, causing the ship to lose power.

According to CBS News , 4,500 passengers were trapped at sea for over 24 hours with very little food and no A/C or hot water.  The ship was towed to San Diego.

Once again, sound familiar? 

For the next couple of years, Carnival avoided major PR disasters.

In October 2012, 'Spirit' launched, becoming the company's first ship to sail through Australian waters, as well as the largest ship to cruise to Australia year-round.

'Spirit' is too large to fit under the bridge to Carnival's cruise terminal , so it is docked separately.

The brand also signed an agreement with Italian shipbuilder Fincantieri for both a 99,000-ton ship for its Holland America Line and a 135,000-ton ship for its Carnival Cruise Line. 

According to Breaking Travel News , Giuseppe Bono, chief executive of Fincantieri, said, “These additional orders bring the total number of ships we have built for Carnival Corporation to 61 and confirm Fincantieri’s world leadership in the cruise ship sector even at a time of slowing demand.”

In January 2012, a Costa Concordia ship owned by Carnival struck a rock off the coast of an Italian island.

Thirty passengers aboard the Costa Concordia lost their lives, and as of December 2012, two were still missing.

Because the ship wreckage is in a nationally protected marine park and coral reef, removing the wreckage has proven difficult and costly . 

According to 60 Minutes, the cleanup will cost $400 million.

Hundreds of passengers and up to 1,000 businesses on the Italian island have sued or are in the process of suing Carnival . 

Carnival's most recent PR fiasco may be the last straw for many of Carnival's loyal customers.

After almost a week of being stranded with no running water or air conditioning, passengers who suffered aboard the 'Triumph' ship are already starting to sue Carnival over the conditions they endured.

Making things even worse, one of the buses carrying rescued passengers from Mobile to New Orleans broke down.

Carnival has already offered passengers a refund, cruise credit, and $500, but this disaster may prove too big to be solved with money. 

The engine fire that caused the horrible conditions is still under investigation, and it may take months to find the cause.

Despite Carnival's recent problems, the brand is still used by almost 50 percent of worldwide cruise passengers.

According to Cruise Market Watch, the worldwide cruise industry is an estimated $36.2 billion business.

Current data shows a 4.5 percent increase in revenue from 2012 figures.  

There has also been a 3.3 percent increase in yearly passengers since 2012.

This chart shows the revenues of the worldwide cruise industry. Each color represents a different parent company. Subsidiaries of Carnival  Corp. & plc (CCL) are the red dots. Subsidiaries of CCL's major competitor, Royal Caribbean Cruises Ltd. (RCL), are shown in dark blue. All other brands, including MSC Cruises and Norwegian, are shown in light blue.

CCL serves 48.4 percent of total worldwide cruise passengers. RCL serves 23.3 percent, and all other brands combine to serve 28.3 percent of cruisers.

You've seen how Carnival has operated over the years...

Now see the augmented reality campaigns brands are using today  →

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A firsthand account from inside the Poop Cruise

Leave it to Reddit to find someone who experienced all the poop firsthand.

Kevin Collier

Internet Culture

Posted on Feb 15, 2013     Updated on Jun 2, 2021, 12:32 am CDT

The Carnival cruise ship whose engine burned out and was left stranded at sea—lovingly nicknamed the “poop cruise” by major media outlets because of the lack of working toilets—finally docked late Thursday night.

Thankfully, a redditor was on board. As he sat in an Alabama port, he was happy to cut the hype and explain what happened to his fellow users in an Ask Me Anything session conducted on his phone. 

In short, he said, it was “just like camping. Except crowded and unhygienic.” And it wasn’t gross enough from keeping him from using a free voucher to go on another cruise next year.

Will you ever go on another cruise again? (teh_bacon_bandit)

Yes, definitely! It really isnt nearly as bad as they’re talking about. I actually had a good time. 

So, ah, did you just do it off of the side of the boat, or what? ( SharpHawkeye )

what about poo? ( missyo02 )

On CNN they would have one person crying about how awful everything else was, and then another person that sad it wasn’t too bad ( barnosaur )

That’s how a lot of it was. I saw a few people crying but honestly, without the dirtiness, it wouldn’t be too bad. It was like camping on a cruise ship.

So… how much is Carnival paying for you to do this AMA? (jonny_nutsack)

Haha no we’re getting into a class action against them. I’m just making sure reddit is in “the know”

Is anyone taking advantage of the situation? If so, how? (deviant143)

Yes, a woman fake falling and crying in pain. Also people are suing. On a few of the working outlets a couple of laptops have been stolen, there and in the pitch black rooms.

Did they have to ration out the food? What was there and what was that like? ( arevan )

Not really. They had a worse buffet, but a buffet none the less. Toward the end they started giving you the good themselves to ensure that we weren’t stockpiling it. There was a lot of random sandwiches. Sometimes tomato and lettuce, zucchini mayo, onion lettuce, cheese bacon mayo, etc. they weren’t particularly good, but you made do. There was also a lot of fruit and cheap deserts.

Are they really making you go to the bathroom in bags? How hard is it when you have to take a dump? ( Mynameisinuse )

Yea they were handing out bags for us to poop in, I didn’t since our toilet worked for the most part. But there were red bags all I’ve the hall way and whilst sleeping outside someone through there bag over and it got caught next to our area and smelled it up until we finally knocked it over the edge with a rope and pole.

Did anybody go crazy or totally loose their cool? ( Membery )

A few people were crying, a few fights over food and the long lines, and a few fights over the outlet/ charging station situation.

I’m sure there was some kind of waiver that you had to sign before boarding – would that prevent you from filing any sort of lawsuit in the future? ( Para_Para )

Yes, definitely! No waiver, but on the check that they will send us it’s like signing a settlement. We are for sure holding off on cashing those in and we are going to participate in a class action. Nothing will stop since the unsanitary environment and how my mom is sick because of it.

Why are the people getting sick? I also read there were serious food shortages, is this true? ( desertdreamer )

Thanks and yeah, people are getting sick because sewage everyone; urine on the floors, waste in bags, and undercooked food. Strong fecal and urine stench near the cabins and just a poor environment. The workers rushed a lot of the processes. My mom is actually sick. No food shortages, we’ve had 3 other carnival ships come by and one of the three again and they used a helicopter to drop a generator and just recently (today) we got a delivery of sterno. People are throwing food away so we have enough.

Are you taking one of the chartered flights back to Houston tomorrow? ( 305broooo )

Yeah, first a bus ride to New Orleans and stay in a hotel and fly out Tomorrow or Sarurday.

What was your initial reaction [to the ship’s engine room catching fire]? Did you think you were sinking? ( supermav27 )

My initial reaction was just weariness. I slept on a bunk type bed that pulled out from the ceiling and smelled smoke and heard yelling. I was pretty pissed to wake up that damn early on my birthday but we then walked outside and Jen (cruise director) told us about the engine fire. I didn’t know what to think but I wasn’t very scared.

happy late birthday ( ekaceerf )

Thanks, it’s going to be hard to top next year.

Photo via CarnivalTriumphAMA/ Imgur

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A former senior politics reporter for the Daily Dot, Kevin Collier focuses on privacy, cybersecurity, and issues of importance to the open internet. Since leaving the Daily Dot in March 2016, he has served as a reporter for Vocativ and a cybersecurity correspondent for BuzzFeed.

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The Two-Way

'cruise from hell' was a mix of 'survivor' and 'lord of the flies'.

Mark Memmott

As they finally came off the Carnival cruise ship Triumph late Thursday and early Friday in Mobile, Ala., passengers from the ill-fated cruise told stories that call to mind TV's Survivor and literature's classic Lord of the Flies , the Los Angeles Times writes .

According to the Times , "Debbie Moyes, 32, of Phoenix said she was awakened Sunday by a fellow passenger banging on her door, warning people to escape." An engine fire had left the ship stranded off the coast of the Yucatan peninsula.

"Soon after, she said some passengers panicked. 'People were hoarding food — boxes and boxes of cereal, grabbing cake with both hands,' she said. "Toilets stopped working and the 3,143 passengers and 1,086 crew had to urinate in sinks, she said, and eventually red plastic bags. She saw sewage dripping down walls. Sometimes people slipped on it, she said. Soon, the ship began to smell. " 'It was like a hot port-o-potty,' Moyes said, and when the ship tilted, 'it would spill.' "

CNN writes that "the frustration that many felt was typified by Janie Esparza, one of the first passengers to get back on land. 'It was horrible. Horrible,' Esparza told a scrum of reporters. 'The bathroom facilities were horrible and we could not flush toilets. No electricity and our rooms were in total darkness. Honestly, I think that this ship should have [never] sailed out.' "

The Associated Press says that passenger Deborah Knight of Houston, "had no interest in boarding one of about 100 buses assembled to carry passengers to hotels in New Orleans or Texas. Her husband Seth drove in from Houston and they checked into a downtown Mobile hotel. 'I want a hot shower and a daggum Whataburger,' said Knight, who was wearing a bathrobe over her clothes as her bags were unloaded from her husband's pickup truck. She said she was afraid to eat the food on board and had gotten sick while on the ship."

After finally getting off the Carnival cruise ship Triumph, this passenger waited for a ride early Friday in Mobile, Ala. Mark Wallheiser/EPA /LANDOV hide caption

After finally getting off the Carnival cruise ship Triumph, this passenger waited for a ride early Friday in Mobile, Ala.

The wire service adds that another passenger, Maria Hernandez of Angleton, Texas, had "tears welling in her eyes as she talked about waking up to smoke in her lower-level room Sunday and the days of heat and stench to follow. She was on a 'girls trip' with friends."

" 'It was horrible, just horrible' said Hernandez. ... She said the group hauled mattresses to upper-level decks to escape the heat. As she pulled her luggage into the hotel, a flashlight around her neck, she managed a smile and even a giggle when asked to show her red 'poo-poo bag' — distributed by the cruise line for collecting human waste."

NBC News says that "passenger Janie Baker told MSNBC's Ed Schultz that people managed the situation well and that the crew was 'fantastic,' but on the final night, 'people's tempers started flying.' She described one incident where another passenger tried to disrupt a movie, and was taken away by the crew. 'If we had gone any longer, it could have been much, much worse,' she said."

On Morning Edition , NPR's Greg Allen reported about the $80 million the debacle is expected to cost Carnival and the blow suffered to the cruise industry's image. As for the passengers, he said, they're now getting "a full refund, credit for a future cruise plus $500 in cash."

Reuters add that "for all the passengers' grievances, they will likely find it difficult to sue the cruise operator for any damages, legal analysts said. Over the years, the cruise industry has put in place a legal structure that shields operators from big-money lawsuits."

Update at 9:45 a.m. ET. And On The Ride To New Orleans, At Least One Bus Broke Down:

CBS News reports that among the "caravan of buses" that Carnival chartered to take passengers to New Orleans, "at least one ... became stranded on the way."

• Carnival cruise ship
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Feces, water reported on floor of disabled Carnival cruise ship in Gulf of Mexico

Food, supplies transferred to stranded cruise ship

Coast Guard on mission to get disabled boat back to U.S.

Conditions appear to be worsening on the Carnival cruise that has been floating aimlessly about 150 miles off the Yucatan Peninsula after a fire erupted in the aft engine room Sunday, knocking out the ship’s propulsion system.

"There's water and feces all over the floor," said Brent Nutt, who was told about the conditions by his wife who is a passenger on board. "It's not the best conditions. You would think Carnival would have something in place to get these people off the ship."

Passengers also are getting sick and throwing up, he said, adding that his wife told him: "The whole boat stinks extremely bad."

To be sure, passengers aboard a cruise vessel stranded in the Gulf of Mexico have limited access to bathrooms, food and hot coffee, and were just given a new destination: Mobile, Ala.

Carnival Cruise Lines President and CEO Gerry Cahill said in a statement Monday that the Carnival Triumph had drifted so far north of its original position that it will be towed to the southern U.S. port, instead of the original plan to take it to Progreso, Mexico.

More On This...

Jimmy Mowlam told The Associated Press on Tuesday that his son Rob and new daughter-in-law got married onboard the Carnival Triumph on Saturday and are among the roughly 3,100 stranded passengers.

He says his son told him by phone Monday night that many passengers are sleeping on deck because the lack of ventilation made it too hot to sleep inside.

He says his son says passengers were mostly "taking it in stride."

Cahill said strong Gulf currents caused the Triumph to drift about 90 miles north of its original position off the Yucatan Peninsula.

Cahill's statement said the ship should arrive in Mobile on Thursday and that the change will allow for less complicated re-entry for passengers without passports.

The ship left Texas last Thursday on a scheduled four-day cruise with 3,143 passengers and a crew of 1,086.

Two tugboats arrived on the scene of the stranded vessel Tuesday to tow it to Mobile. Besides the two tugs, at least two other Carnival cruise ships have been diverted to the Triumph to leave supplies, and a Coast Guard cutter reportedly was at the scene. The Coast Guard has informed Mexican authorities of the situation in their waters, a spokesman said.

Melinda Ramos, meanwhile, said her father was laughing when she briefly spoke to him Sunday.

"He might be completely joking, but he said they're sleeping in tents outside," the 19-year-old daughter of Mary and Matt Ramos told The Houston Chronicle.

A similar situation occurred on a Carnival cruise ship in November 2010. That vessel was also stranded for three days with 4,500 people aboard after a fire in the engine room. When the passengers disembarked in San Diego they described a nightmarish three days in the Pacific with limited food, power and bathroom access.

Carnival said in a statement that it had cancelled the Triumph's next two voyages scheduled to depart Monday and Saturday. Passengers aboard the stranded ship will also receive a full refund, the statement said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report

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Suit: Fire Risk Known Before Carnival's Triumph Sailed

December 18, 2013 / 12:21 PM EST / CBS Miami

McALLEN, Texas (CBSMiami/AP) — Was it a disaster waiting to happen?  Recently obtained court documents have revealed some new information regarding the troubled voyage of the Carnival Cruise Ship Triumph where 4-thousand passengers were stranded aboard what's now known as the "poop cruise" after a debilitating fire knocked out the ships power.

The court documents reveal Miami-based Carnival Cruise Lines knew about the risk of leaks from engine fuel hoses and recommended taking precautions on the ill-fated ship that later caught on fire at sea.

A compliance notice report sent to the Triumph one month before it departed Galveston on Feb. 7 for what was planned as a four-day cruise recommended spray shields be installed on engines' flexible fuel hoses, according to the documents filed Tuesday by Carnival Cruise Lines in federal court in Miami.

A leak from a hose on engine No. 6 led to a fire early on Feb. 10 as the ship returned from a stop in Cozumel, Mexico. No one was injured, but the fire disabled the ship. More than 4,000 people aboard endured a nightmarish tow to Mobile, Ala., that the plaintiffs' attorney called a "floating hell."

The documents, first reported by CNN, are part of a lawsuit that was filed in February against Carnival Cruise Lines and its parent Carnival Corporation on behalf of dozens of the Triumph's passengers.

Frank Spagnoletti, a Houston attorney who represents some of the passengers, said Tuesday that Carnival was negligent in maintaining the ship and allowed it to sail knowing there was a fire risk.

In a response filed Tuesday in Miami, Carnival said the ship's engines passed inspection before departure and its own recommendation to install spray shields on flexible fuel lines was beyond any required safety measures.

Carnival issued a statement calling the lawsuit frivolous and noting that the U.S. Coast Guard inspected and cleared the ship before its departure.

"The accident in this situation was just that - an accident, "Carnival said in the statement emailed to The Associated Press on Wednesday. "To claim otherwise is simply unfounded and inconsistent with the facts."

It was the recognition of the problem — with a two month repair deadline — along with the decision to let the Triumph sail before it was corrected that galled Spagnoletti.

"You've got 4,000 souls on that ship. You know that there's a propensity for fire if these fuel hoses break and yet you give them two months to fix it?" he said.

In a Nov. 22 deposition, ship captain Angelo Los said he was first notified by Carnival about problems with fuel leaks from flexible hoses in January. During the deposition, Spagnoletti showed Los the compliance notice report dated Jan. 2 that cited nine fuel leaks on Carnival Corporation's ships during a two-year period.

The compliance notice report said Carnival together with the engine manufacturer was investigating the problem and that installing spray shields would be an effective safety barrier. It described an incident on another ship outfitted with the spray shields that avoided a similar fire.

The company gave the ship until Feb. 28 to come into compliance.

Los said in November that he believed Carnival had known about the problem since March 2012. The spray guards were partially installed on Triumph, but not on engine No. 6, Los said. The hose that leaked was less than six months old.

"The spray shields for the flexible fuel hoses were an additional Carnival Corporation recommended best practice to avoid fuel fires," the company said in its response Tuesday, and not otherwise required by any regulation or statute.

Carnival Cruise Lines also argued the notice sent to the Triumph was only for fuel lines above the engine room floor plates. The leak occurred on a fuel hose beneath the engine room floor. However, the January notice to Triumph does not specify that or differentiate between hoses above or below the floor.

"The leak in the flexible fuel hose was a completely unexpected accident that took place," the company said. What ignited the fuel is unknown, it said.

Passengers described unsanitary conditions after the fire, as toilets stopped functioning and an unbearable stench drove many to camp out on the decks. The weary travelers finally disembarked in Alabama on Feb. 15.

Spagnoletti echoed many of the passengers in crediting the crew with putting out the fire and making the best of a horrible situation.

"It was unbelievable to me that you would take 4,000 people and put them in a situation of basically Russian roulette," Spagnoletti said. "Basically every time that vessel went out they never knew whether they were going to have a fire or not."

(TM and © Copyright 2013 CBS Radio Inc. and its relevant subsidiaries. CBS RADIO and EYE Logo TM and Copyright 2013 CBS Broadcasting Inc. Used under license. All Rights Reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. The Associated Press contributed to this report.)

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Carnival Poop Cruise Lawsuit Dumped by 11th Circuit Court

An August 30, report on Law360.com states that the 11th Circ. Dumps Carnival Passengers’ Suit Over ‘Poop Cruise’.

According to the report : “ The Eleventh Circuit on Thursday tossed a suit brought by more than 100 former passengers of the Carnival Triumph who were stranded at sea for five days in a 2013 incident known as the “Poop Cruise,” saying the passengers’ ticket contract required notice of a personal injury claim within 185 days. “

The Carnival Poop Cruise made national headlines in 2013 as Carnival Triumph passengers were stranded at seas after a fire knocked out the ship’s power.

As the Business Insider reported in How Carnival Went from Fun Ship to Poop Cruise : “The testimonies from the passengers are truly disgusting: Hallways were flooded with human waste, there was no A/C or running water, and passengers were left to survive on limited food and water. The Triumph was given the nickname “poop cruise” because passengers were forced to use the bathroom in bags.”

Not all injury claims or lawsuits against the cruise lines are successful, even when real injuries can be articulated to the cruise line claims departments, defending attorneys or the Federal Court in Miami.

Questions about an incident on a Carnival Cruise Ship ? Contact our firm today.

For more information, read our pages Can I Sue a Cruise Line and Personal Injury on a Cruise – What is That?

How do Cruise Ships Get Rid of Human Waste (the Poop)

Have you ever wondered what happens to human waste on a cruise ship?

Or perhaps been asked by a youngster, “where does poop go on a ship”?

Whatever your age, it’s a question many people wonder about.

Is it just dumped in the ocean, and would that be bad for the environment?

Or is it treated and disposed of responsibly?  

With more and more cruise ships being built and seemingly getting ever larger it is certainly a question worth looking into because the amount of raw sewage produced equates to thousands of tonnes a year.

Some of the modern-day mega-cruise ships, including the largest Royal Caribbean cruise ships, can carry well over 6000 passengers and have over 2000 crew members on board.  The Royal Caribbean Icon class cruise ships will be even larger.

Do Cruise Ship Toilets Drain Into The Ocean?

To prevent pollution of our marine environments, an IMO convention known as Marpol prohibits cruise ships from dumping or draining toilet water into the oceans.

Marpol Annex IV states:

“ the discharge of sewage into the sea is prohibited, except when the ship has in operation an approved sewage treatment plant or when the ship is discharging comminuted and disinfected sewage using an approved system at a distance of more than three nautical miles from the nearest land; sewage which is not comminuted or disinfected has to be discharged at a distance of more than 12 nautical miles from the nearest land. “ Source: imo.org

Where Does Waste Water On A Cruise Ship Go?

Wastewater on cruise ships is separated into two categories on a cruise ship gray water and black water.   Toilet water is classed as black water and is treated onboard the ship.  Only when the water is deemed safe is it released into the oceans according to specific guidelines. 

On a cruise ship, these types of wastewater can be collected and stored in ballast tanks before both being treated separately onboard the ship, as we have outlined below.

Gray water is wastewater from

Although gray water doesn’t contain the harmful bacteria that black water does, it does contain a broader range of chemicals.  Think of the laundry detergents, shower gels, shampoos, and sun lotions that people wash off their bodies. 

This is one reason it is not mixed in with the black water because all these different chemicals could negatively affect the early treatment processes using live bacteria, which could be destroyed by unknown contaminants.

Gray water is filtered and discharged in permitted areas away from coastlines.

Sometimes the gray water is added to the final treatment stage of the blackwater when it is chlorinated. 

However, it should be borne in mind that gray water is known to contain large amounts of microplastics, originating in particular from large of amounts of laundry, all the bedding, for instance.

What Do Cruise Ships Do With Sewage?

Cruise ships treat raw sewage, otherwise known as black water, within a sewage plant in the engine rooms. It goes through a process of filtration, aeration, settlement, and sterilization before being safely released back in permitted sea areas.

Black Water

Black water is raw sewage discharge that contains or may have come into contact with some forms of solids (including poop).  It’s mostly water from toilets .

This includes:

• Feces (poop)
• Toilet paper

Black water is dangerous because it contains harmful bacteria and viruses.  It is also toxic due to the chemicals added to toilets and any holding tanks it is stored in.

If just released or dumped into the sea it will be environmentally harmful to marine life and also humans if it washes up upon coastlines.

What Do Cruise Ships Do With Black Water?

Both types of wastewater can be stored separately in ballast tanks in the bottom of the cruise ship’s hull.  

Ballast tanks are used to help support a cruise ship and lower its center of gravity as well as being used for wastewater, they can be used to keep a ship upright in rough seas and are one means to prevent a cruise ship tipping over too far to one side.

Cruise ships have their own sewage works systems down in the engine room areas.

This is where all the collected black water is sent to be filtered and treated so it’s safe and could in theory, be reused.   Much the same as sewage plants work on the land.

It is a 4 step process:

• Screen filtered into a sedimentation chamber (to remove any extra-large objects)
• Aeration – where it’s broken down by aerobic bacteria
• Settlement chamber – where sewage and water separates
• Sterilization – Water is chlorinated and sterilized 

You can see an illustration of the process in the video below:

Although the raw sewage is fully treated onboard and results in clean potable water (drinkable), the water itself is not reused onboard.  It is stored and later discharged in permitted locations.

Any leftover residues will eventually be safely disposed of ashore.  

There are adequate suppliers of fresh water on a cruise ship when it disembarks to last the entire journey and more.  

Carnival “Poop Cruise”

In 2013, a fire broke out in the engine room of Carnival Triumph (renamed Carnival Sunrise).  Although the fire was extinguished, the events that unfolded led to the event being dubbed the now infamous “ Poop Cruise .”

The fire was quickly extinguished by automatic fire prevention systems in place.  However, the event caused a loss of power, and the ship lost propulsion, so the ship was not moving.

Initially, passengers were relieved to be told the fire had been extinguished, and the crew was working in the engine room.

However, passengers soon realized the toilets were not flushing, which is a huge problem on a ship with about 4000+ people onboard.

The solution was to give passengers red plastic bags in which to poop and then leave in the corridors.  

People who needed to urinate were told to pee in the showers.  However, with the cruise ship’s stabilizers not working due to lack of power, the ship rocks from side to side.   This resulted in the sewage overflowing from the showers onto the deck floors.

The whole event lasted five days and was subject to 24/7 news coverage.

Subsequently, this led to Carnival installing backup generator systems on all cruise ships in the fleet in an effort to prevent a disaster like this from ever occurring again on a cruise ship.

Further Reading:

• Why Is a Poop Deck Called a Poop Deck? (True Meaning)
• What do Cruise Ships do with Food Waste? (Is it dumped in the ocean?)
• Do Cruise Ships Dump Trash in the Ocean? (What do they do with the garbage waste?)

Frequently Asked Questions

Do cruise ships dump poop in the ocean.

Cruise ships are prohibited from dumping untreated sewage or “poop” into the ocean. Cruise ships are equipped with advanced sewage treatment systems that process black wastewater before it is discharged.

Is The Filtered Water On A Cruise Ship Recycled From Toilet Water?

Filtered water on a cruise ship is not recycled toilet water, or any other water from the ship.  Toilet water is filtered and processed as black water.  Once treated, it is released into the ocean in permitted locations only.

Where Does Toilet Water go on a Cruise?

Toilet water is treated as black water on a cruise ship.  It is initially stored in a ballast tank before being treated via an onboard sewage plant in the ship’s engine room.  Once the water is deemed safe, it is released into permitted ocean areas.

Related Posts

What is the Draft of a Cruise Ship? (and Why Does it Matter?)

How Many Doors on a Cruise Ship? (Yes, I Counted)

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Large fight breaks out on Carnival cruise ship, video footage shows

A large fight broke out on a Carnival Cruise Line ship, video footage shared on social media shows.

• The incident occurred in the buffet area of the Carnival Paradise around 3 a.m. on the final day of a Caribbean cruise in early June.
• Security personnel intervened and escorted one group out of the room and the other group exited the opposite direction, a passenger said.

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A video posted to YouTube on Saturday by passenger Nick Richardson appears to show a group of fellow guests throwing chairs, tackling each other and hitting one another in the buffet area of the Carnival Paradise. Richardson previously shared the video on TikTok, but the social media platform removed the clip , he told USA TODAY.

The 43-year-old happened upon the conflict when he went in search of pizza around 3 a.m. on the final day of a Caribbean cruise in early June. “I woke up because I was starving,” said Richardson, who lives in Clearwater, Florida. He saw security guards speaking to groups of guests.

The passengers were “talking trash to each other” in the eatery before the clash escalated, though he wasn’t sure how the initial argument began. Richardson estimated that roughly 10 to 15 people participated in the physical fight.

Security personnel intervened and escorted one group out of the room and the other group exited the opposite direction, he said. The video shows chairs overturned and dishes strewn across the floor and tables – with at least one plate broken – in the aftermath.

“Carnival Paradise’s security team intervened in an incident that took place on June 6,” spokesperson Matt Lupoli said in an emailed statement. “As is our policy, we will not tolerate such behavior and the guests involved were fined and will not sail on Carnival Cruise Line again.”

Richardson stressed the fight was an “isolated incident” and that he thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the trip, which marked his first cruise. He even booked another sailing with Carnival shortly after returning home.

“The security and just all of the staff there, they were very, very good,” he said.

The incident comes after a Carnival guest pleaded guilty in February to assaulting another passenger , at one point smashing a glass in their face.

Nathan Diller is a consumer travel reporter for USA TODAY based in Nashville. You can reach him at [email protected].

The Key Points at the top of this article were created with the assistance of Artificial Intelligence (AI) and reviewed by a journalist before publication. No other parts of the article were generated using AI. Learn more .

Carnival Cruise Line takes stand on a controversial on-board issue

C ruise ships pack thousands of people into what sometimes are very small spaces. While the ships are large, some points of failure on board can create problems.

If you want pizza on a Royal Caribbean ship early on embarkation day or during many late nights, the line will be long, in my experience sometimes 15 minutes or more. The cruise line can bake only so many pizzas at a time, so when demand increases, wait times increase.

Related: Carnival Cruise Line shares key news on cruise ship ducks

The same thing happens during peak periods at the pool bar. Yes, the cruise lines can use roving waiters to take orders and lessen the crowds, but there's only so much bar space and, in the case of popular pool-area drinks, only so many blenders.  

Elevators can also get crowded, especially on the first day as people visit their cabins and then head to the buffet or pool deck. There's no simple solution for this crowding since you can't easily add more elevators to ships just for peak times. ( Royal Caribbean's new elevator technology does ease this problem.)

In a broad sense, elevators require cruise passengers to be courteous and respectful. Since there's no line, passengers must be aware of who was there first and must accommodate people who have mobility issues and need extra time and/or space to board.

That's usually what happens — but not everyone is kind, courteous and respectful of others. Carnival Brand Ambassador John Heald addressed the matter in his weekly Facebook video.

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Carnival passengers take two distinct views

Mobility scooters and wheelchairs are quite common on cruise ships. They help people with mobility challenges navigate the ship more easily. 

There's no specific medical standard required for using one on board (although there are cruise-line standards for which ones you can use). Just because someone uses a scooter or wheelchair does not mean they can't walk. The cruise line accommodates anyone who needs to or chooses to use either one.

Heald read an email from a passenger who uses a mobility scooter and says the cruise line hasn't done enough to accommodate users of these products. 

"Why on the new ships can they not put a wheelchair and mobility-scooter-only elevator? People do not automatically let us in. They jump on leaving no room for those on mobility scooters or who have walking challenges or are in wheelchairs," the person wrote.

Heald also shared a second email that questioned why so many people on board were using mobility scooters.

"The amount of mobility scooters on your ships is ridiculous...On no other cruise lines do I see the amount of scooters. Do other cruise lines ask for medical proof before they are allowed on with a mobility scooter," the writer, whom Heald identified as "she," wrote. 

In the letter, the writer accused Carnival of "empowering people to be lazy."

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Carnival shares its elevator policies

"I do believe that the vast majority of the thousands of people who will watch this video, if they see somebody on a mobility scooter waiting for an elevator, they are going to hold the door and let them in," Heald said. 

The brand ambassador did not deny that "most people" is not the same as "everyone."

"Then, we have the situation I know where not everybody will do that," he said. "That's the society we live in."

Heald made clear, however, that the cruise line would not be adding a dedicated elevator.

"The reason we can't do this, have a single elevator, is that we would have to have a crew member control it. That crew member would have to be on every floor and at every elevator bank," he explained "We just don't have the manpower."

Heald says that signs alone would not work for the same reason that there are issues with the current policy. 

As for the second claim of "too many" mobility scooters on board, Heald said the cruise line would not get involved with who can bring a scooter on board. 

He noted that the number of mobility scooters on board has increased since before the Covid pandemic. 

"We don't have people tell us they're bringing a mobility scooter, or renting one. There is nothing that says 'you have to tell us,'" he said. "I believe, let me say 'allegedly,' I don't believe we can have someone have to prove that they need a mobility scooter."

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Some people, he allowed, don't need one and are using it for convenience, but he sees that as a tiny number.

"I would like to think that 99% of the people that you see on our ships on a mobility scooter need it," he added.

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